Okay so 2 days ago I posted a rant against the mere concept of the Tyranny of Fun.
Now not only was I surprised to get some feedback from Mike Mearls (giving yours truly a fanboi moment) but I was absolutely astounded at the civil, dynamic exchange of point of views. Out of the post and the more than 70 comments spawned, I’m the only one who actually uttered swear words!
I would first like to point you to four posts spawned by that rant:
Ninetail shared his take on the subject here which amounts to ‘you don’t have to impose your version of fun on me man’ and ‘Civilization is not eroding because some games allow characters to be cool most of the time now’
Dave the Game posted about a tendency seen across games (RPG, Board, video) where a game is deemed to be better than another regardless of other people’s tastes. He compares the 3e/4e fracas, Eurogames/Ameritrash debate and even the Fallout 1 & 2 vs the upcoming 3.
Scott dug deeper in the increasing comment pile and extracted the essence of an interesting discussion that grew up from the thread. In essence he pipointed the comment brought by newcommer Donny where D&D 3.5 (and possibly older versions of the game) allowed for Lone Wolf/Supercool characters to shine whereas D&D 4e’s Balance philosophy does not encourage it.
As I was writing this, Ninetails also posted about the Teamwork focus of 4e.
Aside: It’s going to be a very big thing guys… a D&D party could conceivably be designed like a CCG deck. DMs be warned that players who merge into a Performing team will be able to wipe much stronger opponents than what the rules assume.
That distinction seems to be a very valid reason why some player would prefer to stick to D&D 3.5.
What it all boils down to is that most of us are way cool with accepting that fun is subjective and that 4e is not an all-inclusive system… yet (if it ever becomes it).
As James V puts it early in the thread:
There are so many levels to fun the true tyranny is saying your fun is the one that applies to everyone else
I must mention the interventions of Donny, who initially came into the discussion a tad aggressively but mellowed out when we told him we were interested in what he had to say as long as we all did it buddy style. He did! (Thanks bro) and ended up bringing cool points and I’m glad he joined the fun.
I really encourage you all to slug it through the comments, it’s very interesting stuff!
Guys, I really can’t say enough how much you all rock.
Now I’m off to write my real post!
Mega dittoes, Chatty…
The sheer civility of your blog and its peanut gallery of regulars is probably the chief reason I like it so much. You’ve raised a few topics that, on other sites, almost always seem to kick off flame wars… and everyone has always been very polite about them.
Bravo.
Thanks Ish. I’m actually thinking of changing the Blog’s byline to ‘just like chatting at the cash register of your FLGS’ in your honor.
I, too, like the maturity of the discussion here. I think that’s part of the reason why I keep ignoring my blog. You have great topics and some great posters who are polite and thoughtful in their responses. It’s a refreshing corner of the internet. 🙂
Deadshots last blog post..ENWorld — Sean K. Reynolds joins Paizo to work on Pathfinder
@Chatty: Aww shucks… but only if you promise to fix the typo! 😛
What Typo? Looks innocently around
Gah! I soo need to better edit myself!
My world domination plans are on track! Mwa HA HA HA!
Hmm, sorry. Thanks Deadshot!
As i said on Twenty Sided when the 3.x vs. 4e discussion came up, with regards to someone’s comment that 4e “forced” parties to work as units:
“My old group found that a successful party tended to
1} fall into combat roles (at the time there were no names for these, no “Tank” etc.)
2} use planning and … RP in advance of combat to tilt the odds, and
3} choose to engage in those encounters which progressed the story and player goals rather than fighting the DM.
The trick was to put together a group of players with a good mix of personalities and work out where everyone fit. It helped that our usual DM was phenomenal at providing diverse goals and most of the players were interested in the story.”
And yes, once the party began performing as a unit, the DM was forced to respond by increasing monster count, enemy power, armament and special abilities, and to play the enemies as smarter to counter us. He almost wiped out the party in the climactic battle by combining Prismatic Wall and Attraction spells (this was back in 2e; I don’t even know if these spells exist as such anymore).